Metro Detroit Birth Stories

From Dismissed to Divine: Reclaiming My Power Through Birth

• Exie Buehler • Season 4 • Episode 34

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 ⚠️ Trigger Warning: This episode contains discussion of obstetric trauma, postpartum hemorrhage, and infant illness. Please take care while listening and pause if needed. While the episode ends on a very positive and hopeful note—with both Elise and her children doing well—it may still bring up sensitive emotions for some listeners. 

In this deeply personal and empowering episode,my colleague Elise shares the transformative stories of her two births—one filled with unexpected trauma, and the other a healing, redemptive experience.

Her first birth in 2009, which took place on Thanksgiving, included challenges with an unsupportive OB, a postpartum hemorrhage, and her son’s unrelated illness four months later. The emotional weight of that experience led Elise to believe she wouldn’t have another child. But through years of inner work and support, she made the powerful decision to try again—this time with a new care team, a new environment, and a renewed sense of self. Her second birth, in 2012 on Super Bowl Sunday, was a calm, connected experience supported by midwives.

Elise’s story is one of resilience, reflection, and reclaiming agency. It is a reminder that healing is possible and that every birthing person deserves to feel heard and supported.

Elise names these folks in this episode:

Read Elise's blog post explaining Limbic Imprinting

Read Elise's blog post for her thoughts on the significance of the number 13

Connect with Elise

Tranquil Touch Birth & Women's Wellness
Birth support services helping clients feel supported, cared for and confident about birth.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

I want to hear from you! Tell me your thoughts on this episode, or request to share your birth story in an upcoming episode.

Questions or Comments? Contact or Follow Exie


DISCLAIMER: The thoughts and opinions expressed on Metro Detroit Birth Stories are those of the participants. They do not represent any organization or profession. This show is meant to be informative, educational, and entertaining. Nothing in any episode (past, present, or future) should be construed as medical advice or take the place of your medical professional.
Music: https://www.purple-planet.com

Exie Buehler-4:

In today's Metro Detroit birth story, I would like to share a gentle content warning. This episode contains discussions of obstetric trauma, postpartum hemorrhage, and infant illness. If you've had similar experiences or are feeling tender in this area, please take care of yourself as you listen. While the episode ends on a very positive and hopeful note with my guest and her children doing well, it may still bring up sensitive emotions for some listeners, and I would like to honor your emotional safety first and foremost. Thank you so much.

Exie:

Welcome to Metro Detroit Birth Stories where we celebrate the power, wisdom, and beauty of birth, one story at a time. I'm your host, Exie Buehler, a birth and postpartum doula, childbirth educator, and maternal mental and emotional wellness coach. My passion for supporting birthing families began 20 years ago and has only grown since then. In this space, you'll hear real birth stories from Metro Detroit and beyond, along with insights from my work that might resonate with your own journey because every birth story matters and every journey,deserves to be heard. Please note that this podcast is intended for entertainment and informational purposes only. The stories shared are from the perspective of the person sharing it and do not represent my thoughts, opinions, or views. I am a non-medical professional whose thoughts, opinions, and views are my own. So nothing said should be construed or understood as medical advice. Please discuss all of your concerns or questions with your pregnancy provider. Now, let's hear today's story. Good morning, Elise. How are you today?

Elise Bowerman:

Good morning, Exie. Thanks for having me here.

Exie:

Yeah,

Elise Bowerman:

It's good to see you.

Exie:

thanks for joining. Yeah, I know. Listeners probably don't know. We go way, way back, don't we? I can't even, I was trying to think of when and how we first crossed paths and

Elise Bowerman:

I think it just popped into my head literally as you were saying it is there used to be like, I think a Livonia birth worker, some birth network, and I think that was it right before it fizzled and dissolved.

Exie:

Yeah

Elise Bowerman:

so it was probably like two. It was probably like, I don't know, was it oh nine or.

Exie:

oh golly,

Elise Bowerman:

I, but yeah, we've been together for a while.

Exie:

Yeah, and it's so great because I'm sure, like me, you have seen colleagues in this field that we knew way back then, transition into other. Either out of birth, work entirely or focused on something else. And, if anybody has gone back or has listened to the previous iteration of this podcast, which I keep referring to there's an early interview with you. And at the time you were if I'm remembering correctly, you were teaching full-time prenatal yoga classes to pregnant women? Correct.

Elise Bowerman:

I've always been part-time, but yeah. But prenatal yoga has always been on my plate since 2009. Yeah.

Exie:

Yeah.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah.

Exie:

and you're also a birth doula.

Elise Bowerman:

Yes. In 2020 I got certified with Patty Brennan with lifespan doulas for birth and postpartum. Yeah.

Exie:

fantastic. And in recent years, you've gone through your own transition. So why don't you tell us just a little bit about that.

Elise Bowerman:

Thank you, and I really love how you named the ebb and flow of the birth workers in our community, and I think that's such an important thing. Just before I even share my own transition of life and priorities is as most birth workers are women and as women, we really live like a spiral life and it's not linear and we are typically the nurturers in our families and in our friendships and communities. And there is this natural ebb and flow of how much time and energy we can give to our community, how much time and energy we can give to different family members and of course ourselves. And that is, it was one of those things I think most of us in service of this type of work is less and one of those healing things for our own life stories to prioritize ourself if, for the benefit of all, and, and everyone's part and how they showed up through the years impacts our community as a whole for the birth workers. I'm such a believer that Metro Detroit ought to be and will be, a pin on the map of one of the best places to birth in our country and maybe even the world because we have bright wise, people, women leading the priority of taking care of mother and taking care of the babies and children and the families as a whole. And and we're doing the work, even if it's for a blip in the radar of someone's lifespan, right? Everybody's step really matters and creates an impact and a ripple effect. So thank you for listening to that little spiel and with my own self too. So my own transition of my business and my sense of purpose just had to come, at its own time. I was under this name of Sweet Mama Yoga, and while I like really loved the name, I felt really confined to the word yoga. And because like in social media and media in general, there's. Not like the proper representation of what the yoga practice is and which makes people think that they can't practice it. And that disturbs me and so I just really wanted to give myself, more spaciousness because I'm, I incorporate way more than yoga. I I infuse a lot of intuitive energy healing. I really had This relationship with my mom who was a seeker of truth. That's what I like to call her. She was a very curious person. And when I was growing up in, in my early twenties, like I got certified as, a reiki level. I just did level two and I did intuitive training to intuitive medical training. I, yeah, and I did some other modalities and so it really has infused into all that I do and my background. I'm one of those yoga teachers that, my background is in dance but I chose yoga because I was on the track of being a dance movement therapist and when I found yoga in college, I was like this is it like this pieces together, the emotional and mental health with physical awareness, healing, releasing, all the things that we call somatics now and, I was like this is it. I don't need to go to my masters. I'm like I'm good. But then I realized, years later, that's not really what people think of as the yoga practice, but it's like how my interpretation has been. And so I just really wanted to expand beyond that. So I worked with my husband who's in marketing and we like literally did a three hour session that really was multiple days before, but then a crash course of focus of what are you about? What's your mission driven? Like who do you wanna serve? All the things and birth humanity was just what popped out of this intense session. And I feel like it's just broad and really focused, and I believe that all the work that I'm doing is that ripple effect and that the moms I serve are creating a better humanity because we're seeing the disconnection that happens in our society, the violence, the distrust in one another. I'm really focused on women trusting each other and reclaiming that in our society. So many more things and bringing women of all ages and stages of life together in one room because we're really missing that in today's world because we need our elders, we need the wise women and to have them share their stories so we can learn from. So yeah, so I'm just there, my kids are teenagers now and so it's just like that natural evolution of what's going on in teenage life

Exie:

Yeah.

Elise Bowerman:

and the challenges and also the ease that it brings. It's the double-edged, life of different problems, different purposes of showing up as a mother and as a woman and the freedom in that it gives me, which is why. I didn't become a, I've always wanted to become a birth and postpartum doula. I didn't really know I wanted to be a postpartum doula until I really was it, and I love the work. But I had to have my family structure in a way so that I could leave. And before that, my husband and I, we just created our family structure where I am the go-to person. Like I have, I was the one available and around, and that was our agreement. And it was fine. And then once my kids got older and my son could my oldest could babysit, then I was like, sweet, I can go in the middle of the night if needed and it's okay. Or, we can figure things out once they were older. So it's been nice to be able to intertwine that work and the children to see because again, you know modeled behavior is everything. And for them to see their mom and their dad like prioritize this work and that it's important really speaks volumes to what they're digesting.

Exie:

Yeah, absolutely. So postpartum doula work is I think a much broader world than birth doula work. So tell me a little bit about what you focus on. Do you focus mostly on the physical healing? Do you balance that out with emotional and mental wellness? Do you do like housekeeping? What does your postpartum doula support look like?

Elise Bowerman:

Literally all that you named.'cause it's so individualized. Mom is so different. My focus is really on helping her train herself to prioritize rest.

Exie:

Yes.

Elise Bowerman:

Every woman that I've worked with so far is extremely disconnected from the idea of rest and recharging, rejuvenating, all those words, And so it's whatever she needs. Like for one of my clients, she felt really good and I was fortunate enough to be her birth doula too. And so she felt really good after her birth. And you know when you don't have intervention a lot of times and you feel good about yourself, you feel confident, you're like, holy crap, I did it. It's amazing. This is what people talk about. This is what. This is what it's about. When you have those kind of experiences, it can lead to being like, I'm okay. I'm all right. And it's yes, you are okay. You are right and you're not broken. However, we still need to rest just baby on your chest. That's it. Like your presence is everything. And so my point is for her, she would be up doing stuff and'cause the orderliness of her home is really important and that, and then that makes her be able to rest. And I'm sure so many women can relate to that. Once the kitchen's clean, then I can go to sleep, type of thing. And she would literally sit in the kitchen with me and her baby. And I like went through cupboard by cupboard and cleaned and reorganized and'cause it was like on the back of her mind to do during this postpartum time off of work. And this was like the to-do list. And I was like, all right, if you'll sit, I'll go through your cabinets and then. At least your physical body's resting as much as we can allow it right now. It's just meeting them where they're at and how much they're willing to let me in too, right into the heart of what they're feeling and sensing and and coming through. So sometimes there's a big wall up and. And it's like I can only tap on the wall and do so much, making food wise, showing up, encouraging, whatever might need to be or I feel is necessary to encourage or whatever. And they just have their own driving agenda. But I think being a continued presence is really valuable.

Exie:

Yeah. Yeah. What is the estimated timeframe that you support a woman in postpartum?

Elise Bowerman:

Typically so far it's just been, within the first six months postpartum and usually like shortly after birth.

Exie:

Yeah.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah. But like for me, I would extend it beyond and I really only serve, my students. So it helps in their continuity of care. And then they already know how I operate and we already have that relationship. It's whoever's done previously or whatever. Yeah. Like they've been in prenatal yoga or have worked with me one-on-one. And then that way it's a little bit more seamless and not like they're learning a new person. And it's not like I'm learning a new person. I.

Exie:

Yeah. Yeah, that's an excellent point. Many of us get into this field motivated by our own lived experiences. Some of us get into this field just because we absolutely love the whole and transition of watching women go from, pre-pregnancy, through pregnancy, and then becoming a mother. Some of us get into it with a little bit of a foundation of where we came from and either what we loved about how our situation was, our experience was, or what we didn't, and want to then hopefully fill those gaps for our clients. We are here to tell stories and I want to hear yours.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah. Thank you so much. I'm really honored to share my stories and I realize they're not recent. My son is, my oldest is 15 and my daughter is 13, and I think that it speaks to the impact that our birth has, our, the birthing of our own children has on us as moms and women. The women that we're becoming, and it's. It's such a, in our society in general, It's a medical condition. It's, you have to be observed and monitored, type of experience that is a wise process and I completely honor and respect, when there has to be some help to get pregnant. And then when that's over, the body is wise, Baby cells are super wise, and it's just unfolding and happening without us consciously telling our babies to grow and to do their things Right.

Exie:

You know it, it's funny that you say your birth experiences were over a decade. Ago, I actually recently, I was visiting my son and daughter-in-law in California, and I met a woman who was in her eighties and she was in the coffee shop with her daughter who is in her sixties and her daughter has no children, but we spent about 15 minutes. Where that 80-year-old woman was sharing her birth experience of her daughter who was sitting right there next to her. And it just reminded me once again, of how changes us from our core being and stays with us for the rest of our lives. And at 80 some years old, she was able to tell me details that were memorable about her experience. No birth story is too long ago for me.

Elise Bowerman:

Yes. No. Yeah. I thank you so much for that. Yes, and that is such a perfect example of why we need the wise women in the room. We need our elders because they show through their model behavior, through their own processing as women as they age, of how impactful this moment is and how special and sacred it is. And it's not to be just overlooked or to like intelligently tell ourselves we're done, we're through that, and I get we need to do that for survival. However, it's deeply impactful and people will remember those moments and then how we felt and if repair is necessary. I'll share my story too, if you feel defeated, like you are already feeling as a mother before this baby's even out. Like that's awful. And, but repair can happen. So I'll speak on that too.

Exie:

Yeah. So

Elise Bowerman:

yeah.

Exie:

it.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah. Okay, so I'll start with Lucas, my son and to just give context of time because I feel like, no family operates the same, every household is different. Every woman is different and every, all those things. Just a little bit of context. My husband and I it was, so he was born in November of 2009, and he's a Turkey baby. So he was born on Thanksgiving Day.

Exie:

I love that. A Turkey baby. I don't think I've ever heard that before.

Elise Bowerman:

Yay. Yeah, so he's my Turkey baby and 2008 was the market crash. My husband and I were in our mid to late twenties, and we had just gotten married in 2008. In early 2009, so at our three month anniversary, which our anniversary is Memorial Day weekend. And so this year we're in 2025. We're recording this, and so this year we're celebrating 17 years and yeah, so we're doing it. Thanks. Yeah, like May of 2008 we got married, stock market crashed, bought our house. We were both working full-time. And then early spring of 2009, I quit my full-time job and then literally immediately found out I was pregnant. So we had agreed in what we knew then of how we would want to raise our children and family is that I would be home, most of the time. And the available parent and. So I was like I'm pregnant. I'm just gonna teach yoga and that works for us. And so I read a lot. My mom really encouraged me to inform myself about pregnancy, about childbirth, and she taught me about limb imprinting, which is, In a nutshell, cellular memory of how we are cared for in our mother's womb, in our grandmother's womb, and how we were cared for in our moments of birth. Postpartum and now we know the first three to seven years of life, like limbic imprinting is just happening deeply unconscious. An example of it is you don't know why you feel so strongly about something, because it didn't happen to you in this lifetime. That's a story we tell ourselves. It was like, I shouldn't feel that way. I feel really strongly about this, or this triggers me, or, whatever. And. It doesn't make logical sense from what you know of your life story or what you've witnessed or experienced, and so it's probably a cellular memory, either of your mom's, grandma's, or your own birth experience that's just held. In ourselves and'cause we are feelers, first, psychology, birth psychology, neuro neuroscience proves that we are feelers first before we are ever thinkers. So to believe that we have to think our way through birth is completely false. It is a feeling sensing experience because birth is such a reflection of. Like you named, like an initiation of the woman that we're co becoming, we are being rebirthed as our, we are birthing the next generation on our planet. So she, yeah, so she taught me a lot about that as much as she could, in the nineties and early two thousands. And I knew I was an emergency c-section despite. Her provider urging her to have me on Thursday on the 12th, because otherwise I would be born on Friday the 13th.

Exie:

Oh, and there are babies that come on Friday the 13th. It is not indicative of how their life is going to go.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah.

Exie:

people who those dates or those numbers are very meaningful I can see.

Elise Bowerman:

Yes.

Exie:

too, there are some cultures where numerology kind of. Dictates the choices that they make.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah. She was like first she thought I was a boy. So he will be born when he's born. Yeah. My name was gonna be Jeffrey.

Exie:

Oh, that's funny. Was that an ultrasound that made her think or was it just her sense, her feeling?

Elise Bowerman:

No.'cause I don't think they did ultrasounds.'Cause I was born in 81, so I don't think that they did'em back then. So she had no idea. But her mom knew I was gonna be a girl and

Exie:

Oh, that's funny. That limbic system, those emotions, those feelings, those like sixth sense that we have

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah. Yeah. And, but she was like, this baby will be born when they're meant to be born and everything. And and Friday the 13th is actually a very auspicious day. In like sacred feminine practices, there's been a lot of uncovering of the symbolism of 13 and and how it's actually like the day of the divine feminine. It's the Venus stay Frida or Frida. Shoot I'm not sure which way to say it. And so it's actually like a, it's like the mother kind of day. It's very much that it could be the matron or the matriarchy kind of day. Very feminine day. And of course it was erased Globally in other times in past centuries. She had a spontaneous labor with me, but then I was an emergency C-section and I was so grateful for so much that my mom was able to give me she said, she was like, I was scared and she had past trauma, physical trauma, and she's I was scared. And she's I knew I could do it, but she's I was just so scared and she didn't wanna become a mom. And then so her giving me that information, she never wanted to be a mom and her giving me that information, she was like, if you want to break this cycle of the dysfunction in our maternal line,'cause there's multiple generations of not great relationships between mothers and daughters and. She's you're gonna have to really do things differently. And she's I think that you can,'cause she's you're not like me. I'm like, Nope. But I am. And just gave me that information and I could see that it's her story and the way she birthed doesn't have to be the way that I birth, but there is gonna be a big reclamation because. That cycle was already interrupted of the vaginal births. My grandma, her mom had vaginal births. My mom had two C-sections. And then I'm here to reclaim the vaginal birth right for our story in our family. And and yeah. When we found out I was pregnant, I was like, all right, we need to figure out, and my husband needs to understand what birth is about so that he's not projecting his feelings on me. And we did the Bradley method, which was really helpful for us. And I read a lot and of course in prenatal yoga and was teaching prenatal yoga and. Another stressor that was happening in my pregnancy was my husband left his full-time job to do his side hustle business as a full-time business with a business partner. I was six months pregnant when that initiation happened. And so it's like this big deep trust that we had in the way that we wanted to live our lives. And the risks that we were willing to take, because there's always risks in life. And when we don't take those risks that are uncomfortable, but for some reason we're called to, those are missed opportunities for our own growth And so I think that's really important to name that our babies bring about new opportunity there. When I'm in prenatal yoga with the moms, like there's major renovations going on. Someone's moving in a big way, cross country or whatever. Moving is just impactful nonetheless. Someone loses a job or gains a new opportunity in their career and it doesn't feel like it might be the best on paper. It doesn't feel like it's gonna be the best time, but this is when it's presented and do I move forward with it or what? There's losses in families because literally living the circle of life in such a deep human way and so much more that, it's like, why is this happening right now? We wanna just coast, but coasting in life doesn't exist. It's a false narrative that somebody made up. There's no coast, there's just ebbs and flows, and when you're on the high, just ride the high. Just go,

Exie:

Yep. A beautiful way to describe that, for sure. Absolutely. And I think the way that you've described what we now call transgenerational trauma, On from one generation to the other is something that is more, I think in people's awareness now. However, the way that you explained it and how also the mode of birth that each woman has does have a lasting effect on the subsequent generations. And I love also that you that you and your husband had an open dialogue about his experience, And what he saw as his role in supporting you. So that's fantastic.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah, thanks. I married a good one and yeah, he was really, for as much pressure as he was under that he also put on himself to do his own business and all the things, even though I was a cheerleader next to him and I was a big piece of that. He was still very engaged as much as he could possibly be engaged. What I learned early on, and I think my mom probably dropped this seed was especially men, they need tools and if they don't have tools to tinker with to figure out, then they don't know what to do Then they're lost and so lists are really helpful, And prioritizing a list for them to show them different ways. That's what the Bradley method, and I know there's so many other methods like hypnobirthing and there's so many great opportunities, calm birth for partners to get on board and understand The impactful role that they can have, and so that they don't feel lost in what is, physiological birth or when intervention is necessary so that they can have this like little bit of understanding of the normalcy of it all.

Exie:

Yeah,

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah.

Exie:

It's something that I try really hard to focus on when I'm teaching childbirth education to my clients, whether that's birth prep or postpartum recovery tips or newborn care It's a woman's biologically, they're on the outside of the experience. Yeah. They're not feeling the baby move inside of you. They're not the ones who are having although I had a friend who had sympathy nausea during his wife's pregnancy, there are those situations, but generally speaking, the male partner is not experiencing that internal growth and change. So helping them see that have a huge role in this experience and that this experience is also theirs is so important. And Bradley method, I think it was, it had a height back then, didn't it? It's trickled down a little bit from what I've seen.

Elise Bowerman:

I've seen the same thing. Yeah. I didn't know anything else was available besides the Bradley method back then, but yeah, I don't know what happened to it all. But it worked for us. It was really beneficial and supportive. It was our way,

Exie:

yep. Yep.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah. Yeah. And so to get to the birth story of that, of all that context we were living in Novi when I had the babies and I birthed Lucas, my oldest at Providence, shortly after it had opened, it was like shining and new and I was like, this is so great. And so I had a ob,'cause only obs are at Providence and Novi. We had asked our Bradley method teacher if she would be able to be our doula. My doula, but she wasn't available and my husband and I talked a lot and I was just emotionally exhausted from all the decision making, and just the learning. And he was like, I really think that we can do this by ourselves. And he's I will be there for you. He said all the words that I needed to hear and the reassurance, the emotional component, and I was like, yeah, we got this. And and so I didn't have a birth doula for for Lucas. And I actually had back labor. I didn't really know I was even having back labor and my due date. As we know, I think as birth workers, it's like a due month and but at that time it was the due date that I thought I was gonna be around aligned with when Lucas actually was born. But, according to measurements and all the things. He was 11 days late. And yeah. And, it's just the story of the first like I literally dropped everything and was like, okay, I should be having this baby.

Exie:

Yeh, right, right,

Elise Bowerman:

Let me just sit here and wait. Which is like the worst thing I think that I could have done for myself.

Exie:

Yeah, the emotional toll that that has on you is and then you have all your friends and family checking in and saying, how you doing today? Have you felt anything? When do you think it's gonna happen? And then you start without even realizing it, you're developing performance anxiety where you I have to go into labor because everybody's waiting and they wanna hear. I tell my clients, send out a mass text

Elise Bowerman:

Yep.

Exie:

38 weeks and just tell everybody that you're gonna spend the next two weeks or however long it takes. Just. Spending time getting yourself emotionally ready to have your baby, and if they have any questions, they can always message your partner.

Elise Bowerman:

That is such great advice, Pearl of wisdom right there. That is beautiful.

Exie:

you.

Elise Bowerman:

Yes. Yes. That is. So necessary. And yeah. And so I had back labor and, or, the I had back labor the whole time and Lucas was my, what we call our tenderly my Buddha baby, like my husband John. He never, I. He never felt Lucas move. He was, Lucas was just that still baby. And I don't know, I have no recollection, no memory, if the placenta was in front or whatever the story was of why we didn't feel him. I barely felt him. People were like, oh, the flutters. I was like, yeah.

Exie:

Yeah. Yeah,

Elise Bowerman:

And

Exie:

anterior placenta acts as a shock absorber,

Elise Bowerman:

yeah.

Exie:

Those moms don't feel as much. You're absolutely right.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah. And so I, I'm guessing that's my story, and I didn't really, thankfully I'm just so grateful I had my kids when I did because now it's just I feel like these moms are just bombarded with information and counting kicks, and I'm like, oh my gosh, if I was hungry and my belly was growing, I knew that everything was okay. It's like there. We've just lost that trust in ourselves. And then again that the providers are covering their butts and, all the things is it just causes more stress on the moms in my opinion. And so he was my Buddha baby. John never felt him. And, and like I was like, oh, I think I might be in labor, like my low back's hurting. So I went to the chiropractor and then. And that was on,'cause he's Turkey baby, so he was born Thursday. And so Wednesday I went to the chiropractor. I was like, I'm pretty sure I'm in labor. Let's keep things going. And then in the middle of the night, that night, well-trained of letting my husband sleep and I'm like, he doesn't need to be here. I'm okay. And then I don't know, sometime early morning hours we, went to the hospital and i'm like walking in and, but also I was in active labor and just walking in and going through Providence Park is really nice'cause you can just go right up to the labor and delivery floor. It's one really nice thing about it. And I had an amazing nurse and we John and I walked around the hospital floor. And I just moved around the room. I. Probably swore more in my life than ever and people who know me. I have a little bit of a potty mouth and it was really potty mouth and, the light switch getting flipped of, contraction or surge and then not was like, John was like you, he's they weren't kidding, like of focus intense and then back to normal And it was a long labor and back labor. And finally when it was time to and I say push'cause that's the effort that I felt and, to just start pushing him down. I found myself like seated in the bed with my knees in my armpits, and I really liked that position. I actually birthed my daughter the same way for me. It really worked with my body and I had an amazing nurse. Like I said, however, I felt really under supported by my provider. Granted, being Thanksgiving, I don't think anybody really wanted to be working. And my provider, he would be checking in and out and one time and this is me, like in the pushing phase, like of bringing baby underneath, into the pelvis, underneath the pubis bones and out, which is a very vulnerable position to be in. I really give so much credit to the women that are in that phase on the toilet that just really wraps my mind. But I know it works for so many, but I'm like, I I, I can't imagine myself doing that, It works and I get it intellectually but I'm like, oh, I'm here. I'm pushing baby out in my mind, right? Baby's gonna be entering the world soon. I don't know when, but soon. And there's nobody at the bottom, right? Like I have my nurse on the side of me, I have John on the side of me and I'm just breathing baby down and out. And I'm working really hard and I'm really exhausted. And this is like mid-afternoon'cause he was born at 3:40 and and my provider came in probably before this, but like literally looked at his watch and was like, I've already delivered, two babies while you've been doing this. And I was like. What? And then I go, can you just stay in the room? Because I'm like, spread open. I'm like, just, I just need a body there. That's all I need, i'm like, can you just stay in the room? And he's no, you're not ready. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And so I just felt what do I have to do? And that performative aspect of what do I have to do to, make you believe that I'm here, right? Because my honesty and my, what I'm feeling, I'm being transparent and asking is not working. And so I didn't know, I had no answer to that. And then however much time passed and then he came back in and, checked me and everything. And I think Lucas had gotten down further and then found out he had meconium so then there was more of a sense of urgency to get him out.

Exie:

Yeah.

Elise Bowerman:

He's we're gonna have to use forceps or a vacuum. And that was, I say to my mom's use your fear, use your anger to your advantage because it can be the catalyst that you just need. For whatever reason it does, it's not right, but it can be a catalyst for what. You desire for the outcome. And so as soon as he said that, I was like, boop, get this baby out. I was like, you are not doing any of that to my kids Or me. And so fortunately I was able to birth him and and get him out without any

Exie:

assistance.

Elise Bowerman:

assistance tools. Yeah. And because he was meconium, they had to take him across their, there were so many people in the room.

Exie:

Yeah.

Elise Bowerman:

I was not mentally prepared for that. I was like, holy crap. When my mind came to, and I was like taking it all in, I was like, holy crap. And and at that time doing blood core or cord blood donations and like cord blood, whatever it is gathering. Yeah. Banking, thank you was really new and very hyped up, so I was like, whatever, you can take my cord blood. I don't care. And I was really naive to what all that was and or still is today So I was laying there and then I hemorrhaged a lot and had to have oxygen and part of the placenta was stuck in me and I'm gonna get back to the cord blood in a second. But part of the placenta was, still attached. So they had to go in and scrape, which is real, like the worst thing. My husband was like, you look like the exorcist. He's it was the most bizarre and scary thing that I've ever witnessed. And he, it like, he's I had no, he is I was, he's I was trans, somewhere else too. He was like, it was, he's I've never seen anything like that, let alone happen to you. And after they did that, and then massaging the belly. Oh, just awful. I'm laying there still open, like blood on the floor every, according to John, blood on the floor, everywhere. And I just look like a mess, like he's worried about me. He's looking at her son across the room and he's like, where do I go? What do I do? And I, and. And so he got to go over and watch Lucas and he actually got to see them like, reshape his head a little bit like doing the gentle stuff that they do, Just making sure that he was all good and stuff. And he said it was like fascinating. He was like, that was really neat and cool. And and then once they were, then Lucas was just fine. And John got to hold Lucas first.'cause again, I was just there like leftovers. That's what it felt like. And by the time John has Lucas, and we didn't do the eye ointment on our children. And when you don't do that, your children get to see your aura and really connect deeply. He was just, he's I had no idea he would be that. Hooked onto me, and I was like, yeah. I'm like, that's the imprint. He knows that your dad and you're the nurturer, your protector, you know all the things. He like just locked eyes. Like John still talks about it today. He was just like, that was just so special. And John's got Lucas and he's okay, let's get this show on the road for my wife. And the doctor's like busy collecting the cord blood and everything. And John's can you just forget that now,'cause he's it's been like 40 minutes and he's you haven't even taken care of my wife. Can you just take care of her and clean up this blood? Get somebody in to clean up this blood. He's this is ridiculous. Like the priority of the cells. He's it's so unimportant. And he's just take care of my wife. And then after I don't know how fast that was, but John said, according to John, he's then he got moving tending more to me than the blood that was all around. And yeah, and sadly too during the birthing process, because it was that time where we had to really advocate for no episiotomy and. And actually where to cut. And the doctor didn't listen to John or myself, and John was like, right there with the with the doctor of cut this way right here. And the doctor didn't like that of course, right? What do you know, dude? And and so I had an episiotomy and a second degree episiotomy tear. And that was awful to heal from. And and then it was really wild. By the time I had my daughter in 2012 episiotomies were grossly going down, as a standard procedure. It was, it's just amazing just in a few years how it was just like, yeah, we're not doing that. Like, it's not a standard thing anymore, and we're trying to let you tear naturally. And I was like, oh, that's great, because I really had to advocate for the first one and and that sort of thing. So in a nutshell, that was Lucas's birth and we had the best Thanksgiving dinner at the hospital. We still talk about it. It was delicious. We were both starving and it was great. So that was his birth. Yeah.

Exie:

Yeah, the meals at the hospital. I remember with my eldest who was born in 95, they brought me this steak and like I got to pick what I wanted. So of course I picked steak and shrimp and tiny little bottle of champagne. And when the second baby came, think I asked for that, which was three and a half years later, and they were like, oh, we don't offer that anymore. And I'm like, that was like,

Elise Bowerman:

Amazing.

Exie:

my reward for what I did.

Elise Bowerman:

Yes.

Exie:

Oh my goodness.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah.

Exie:

I'm glad you had a good meal. I hope. Did your doctor ever, he was there like he never actually left.

Elise Bowerman:

No. Like he was there. Yeah. Yeah. There. He followed through. He was there.

Exie:

Yeah. Those holiday babies I don't think that people fully understand and I try and tell my clients this, especially if they're planning an induction

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah.

Exie:

When your provider gives you a date for your induction, it is not necessarily based on your or your baby's health. They are surgeons. They have a surgical schedule to work out. They're on rotation. They wanna do it when they're at the hospital. How many beds are allocated for induction? That can shift because, if they have a lot of spontaneous laborers coming in, those are the ones that are going to get the beds. And so I've even had clients who, called in the morning of their induction and were told, oh, sorry you're gonna have to call back in six hours.

Elise Bowerman:

Oh wow.

Exie:

Yeah. If people just don't understand, and then the holidays also play into it because yeah, if they can schedule that time off and get outta town with their families and who can blame them because we're all human and we all want that time.

Elise Bowerman:

Completely.

Exie:

but I feel like him saying to you I just helped deliver to other babies while you've been doing this. Was a little not a little, a lot condescending to you and not at all respecting of the process, which, seems like did a little bit of an emotional thing to you.

Elise Bowerman:

you're absolutely right. Yeah. Yeah. And thanks for seeing that. Yes. I felt like I was failing at motherhood already and like I had a great pregnancy and I felt like I caught this, like I was born, I know I was born to be a mom, and so I was like. I was like, oh my gosh, am I messing this up? Am I like, what's wrong with me that I can't do this? Because in my mind, I've done everything right, in quotes, right? And this guy is I've already delivered two other, babies and, and then it's what's wrong with me? I am like, I have a great healthy body. Like I've done everything. And then just being left on the bed where everybody was focused not on me there. Like I said, I had an amazing nurse. She was focused on me, but it's like everybody else in the room was just swirling around. And maybe some were focused on me, but I just had no, it didn't translate to my human experience. And yeah, I just, it was like everything was happening around me and not being tenderly cared for. I realized was really important for me in my next, if I was gonna do this again. And really frankly, I was done after they cleaned up the room stitched me up and it was just John and I and Lucas. I was like, I will never do this again. That was awful. And I'm like, I'm glad we have our son, but I'm done. This is awful. And I'm like, I can't do that again to myself. And I had no idea how heavy those feelings were, the density of them. And that carried with me through the first few years of being a mom. And I had postpartum depression. A bit of anxiety that underlined the depression at the time. And we didn't know what was happening. And again, like my husband has his own business, like just getting ground off the, really formulating itself. I just remember like being in the parent child mode of our relationship of just being like, do we have can I go get diapers? And my husband's yes, go get diapers you don't have to ask me, but I just went into this childlike mode in our relationship. That I couldn't like mother, my kid, I did not have a great breastfeeding experience and so he was breastfed and formula fed. It was just, whatever. My mom wasn't able to be the, her physical presence was around, but she really didn't provide the kind of support I needed to, to really accept the space of life and to understand the dynamics that are happening. And she actually. She actually encouraged a disconnect between my husband and I, which was really sad. Where she's he's gone all the time. I'm like he's working so that I can be home. Like we see this bigger picture and she didn't see it and she felt like I was being left. And I'm like, no, I'm on board for this. This is our agreement. Like I don't have a problem with it, but she did. And that projected on me, so I just speak to that because all these voices that come from our outside world can create an impact on us. And so sometimes it's really necessary to bring in other people that don't have an emotional bias to you, as the mother or family, that's being grown and that they can see things and connect dots in ways that, like just speaking from my experience with my mom was projecting her own life, and how she felt abandoned as a new mom, when my dad was working and, doing his duties right, because that's, to not go, dissect it or anything, but just doing what he felt like he was supposed to do. It was go to work, come home, Know, type of thing. So,

Exie:

And the time period was very different

Elise Bowerman:

completely.

Exie:

were at the time that you were born, 1981,

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah.

Exie:

that were, that was their role. In this in this weird space where working outside of the home was sometimes the goal

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah.

Exie:

for some women. So then motherhood for many of them removed that goal because the systems there, the systems are still not great in place, but they're better than they used to be. That time, there was no system in place to save those women's, who were having a rocky transition because of all of the, the societal and cultural expectations. Plus it sounds was your mom aware, because you ended up really with two medical complications. The baby had a medical complication The meconium and I've seen births where there's been meconium and it's been like, okay, baby is born, everything's fine, and everybody else leaves the room. Then there have been situations where they're like, baby's first apgar is not what we would like to see, so we're going to do some special care. But then on top of that, you had the hemorrhage as well. So, did she know that all of that had happened?

Elise Bowerman:

That's a great question. I think so. I wanna say, I think so, and she. Is also the kind of person that, you know, kinda like what I said in the beginning of and we're moving on from that. It, like it doesn't exist. So she has a tendency to do that. And I believe she, she probably did that at this time too, it's over, it's done and you're home. Everybody's okay moving on. And we're, I was still digesting emotionally and mentally all of it.

Exie:

Yeah.

Elise Bowerman:

Which is why sharing birth stories is so beneficial for all women.

Exie:

Yeah. Yeah. And I think highlighting the benefits of having emotional support at that time, somebody who could acknowledge how that experience impacted you and John, because as an observer,

Elise Bowerman:

yes.

Exie:

If he wasn't prepared. I've been fortunately on very few births where a manual extraction of the placenta had to be done. I've been on a handful of births where postpartum hemorrhage needed to be managed. And I understand what's happening. So for a birth partner who's so emotionally invested and doesn't understand what's happening, they can many times walk away feeling birth trauma themselves. And

Elise Bowerman:

Yes.

Exie:

like you said, that those emotions, if they're left unresolved or unrecognized, will start to pop back up again. They lay the foundation for your early parenthood transition, and then they come again the next pregnancy, if you have one, which you were determined not to, but then you did.

Elise Bowerman:

Than I did. Yes. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Yeah. And it was like a slow, it it was like a slow fog that crept into our lives of the depression and anxiety and then just the external factors that were happening in our relationship of, John growing his business and creating more predictable income.'Cause you pay employees first before you pay yourself as a business owner and so it's like the just finances and we know how stressful money is and how much power we give it in our society is. That was like a constant ebb and flow for like the first decade of our marriage and life and Yeah. Yeah. And I think it was so okay to not get into it too much. So we had another complication with our son when he was four months old. He almost died and we took him to U of M and they saved his life. There were literally two hospitals in Michigan that would be able to save his life. We had no idea going into it like it was this serious. And and we chose one of those hospitals, which is incredible. And and that was actually such a blessing for John and I to recalibrate and get on the same page of what the heck just happened? And we're in this together, like we're, we wanna stay married,'cause like the highest divorce rate is like from being like babies being born to like age five, I think for, the divorce rate is 51%, but then the highest rate of those people getting divorced is like those early years of life. And we're like, we wanna stay married. Like, how are we gonna stay married and process all this and not live in this kind of stress Everything. And so it was such a blessing. One of those scary moments of where I thought, I was like, oh my gosh, now I'm gonna be a mom to now a woman who loses their child. And this is my story. And for whatever reason, I was already accepting that and downloading it when the all the white coats were around my son. And I was like, this is my story. And I'm like, I can't believe this. This is my story. Just sitting there I can't believe this is me. I have to lose my son. This is me. And I was, I'm, I don't like to use the word fortunate because I think that everything happens the way that it needs to happen for everyone's growth. And, so for our story, he didn't die. And he's super healthy and fine today, but we had that really impactful moment in time that helped us recalibrate our marriage, see where I was not feeling good about myself and to get the help that I needed and the support that I needed. And, I was still one and done though. I was not gonna do that again.

Exie:

Yeah. Gosh, I'm so sorry that you had all of those experiences that,

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah.

Exie:

one of them is a lot, but you had three very major events tied to this experience.

Elise Bowerman:

Yes. Yeah. And I really believe, thank you. Yeah. And I really believe, like me not seeing my son getting sick in front of my eyes.'cause it wasn't it wasn't like something externally happened to him. He just literally was getting sick from the inside and, so they thought he had leukemia. He doesn't, and like me not seeing him, being depleted, like all the things and it's like, why, what is going on? And it's also one of the catalysts of why I'm so passionate about helping moms listen to their intuition. Because my intuition was screaming at me, but also very repressed because I didn't have a lot of trust in myself because I had my mom over here who was telling me other things, and I was just like, caught in the middle. And I know my mom was doing the best she could. I've for forgiven her. We've moved on and it was a story that needed to happen for all of our lives so that it was like, it's just human being. Human is not it's, it it's not coasting. It's messy. It's up and down. And I believe we came and chose, the people in our lives for the lessons that were learning to be the essence that we are. And I was just like, oh my gosh, this is it. But anyways, so yeah. So yeah, so I was able to like really realign myself, my relationship with my husband, like we're in it, we're together, we're online and but still one and done. I was like, that was good. Don't need to do this again. And one of my best friends from growing up, we've known each other since we were 10, but we're in and out of each other's lives.'cause she had her kids way before I did living a whole nother different life. And she came out, she was visiting me one day and it was probably after Lucas's first birthday or so, and or maybe before. And she was like,'cause she has two children and she's Elise, she's I know you. And she's my kids are in school. And there's a difference between the kids that. And the parents the family structure of the singleton kids and the kids that have siblings and the siblings that are closer in age. And she's you have kids that are closer in age when you go on family vacations, when you do things as a family like they have a playmate built in. And she's granted, siblings don't always get along. She's you cannot guarantee that. However, there is this dynamic that happens in households that they will have a partner Either go against parents or whatever to play together so that you don't have to constantly engage. And she knew me because I need a lot of alone time. And I'm a little bit self-centered. I come from two narcissists, like I totally get it. And she just planted the seed. She's you might wanna have another kid. And my mom always told me, my mom is deeply intuitive. And she's you're gonna have a girl. She's you're not done. She's you're gonna have a girl. And I was like, Nope, I'm done. And'cause she's you're gonna rectify our maternal line. Like she, she was like, you're gonna do it. And I was like I'll do it through adoption.'cause John and I, even when we were dating, always talked about adoption. We'll adopt, that'll be okay. But once she planted that seed and she's no two births are alike. Which I knew but couldn't know in my heart of hearts. And she's the second birth will be different than the first. You've learned so much. You're not the woman you were before. Pretty much everything I say to other moms, like she said to me in like a nutshell. And she's just sleep on it. And she's just think about it. And she's I think that you'll be happier as a woman and as a mom if you give Lucas somebody else to be with, and

Exie:

This is your friend saying this.

Elise Bowerman:

This is my friend. Yeah.

Exie:

Okay.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah. Yeah. And and I was like, okay. And, we're really good friends where it wasn't like I'm telling you to just it was completely out of love and out, out of knowing me so well, and, so probably a few months later I was like, alright John, I can do this and it's gonna be different. And he's yeah, it is. He's we're not doing what we did before. So he was born in the end of 2009. Lily was born in the beginning of 2012. And I went with the midwives at U of M because that was our non-negotiable with my husband, was like, no matter where I go, I have to birth in a hospital. And that's just, the agreed upon things and especially'cause hemorrhaging and Lucas meconium, all the crap that happened. So he was like, you gotta birth in a hospital. Beyond that, whatever whatever you want, let's make it happen. And he's most importantly, he's we are hiring a nanny, a babysitter, somebody to be,'cause we, I don't even think we had the framework for postpartum doula at that time where he was like, we're hiring someone to be with you, so that you're not alone with a toddler and a baby. And he was like, I don't care what I have to do to make that happen. He's I'm gonna make that happen. He's that kind of guy. He's he's a generator. More like, how do I generate more income to make this happen? That's how his mind processes. And so he's I'll make that happen. He's don't even worry about it. He's we'll figure it out. But he's you can't be alone. And I was like, all so I actually hired, a home birth midwife to be my birth doula. So I was really stacking the deck.

Exie:

Yeah.

Elise Bowerman:

she was very willing. And her name's Nicole White, she is one of the co-founders of Birth Detroit who built the first freestanding birth center in the city and the first black center, black led birth center in the state. And so that was 2012 and she was here in Michigan for some time. And then shortly after the birth of my daughter she started traveling. I think I don't know where she went, but maybe to Africa to help teach midwifery in Africa or maybe another continent. I could be getting it wrong. And so we did like a crash course again because it's amazing what you forget in between births, even if it's just a few years or two years. And we just need to make sure we're prioritizing the right things and and that sort of thing. And then when I started Labor, I thought I was having Braxton Hicks because quote unquote, she was early, so So I was like, oh, it just must be Braxton Hicks, like it's okay. And it was also Super Bowl Sunday and we were going to I have these kids on like event games.

Exie:

you have a knack for that.

Elise Bowerman:

I really do. Yes. And so Super Bowl Sunday, we're going to our friend's house and they do a great party and I just wanna see everybody. And I felt so great in my pregnancy. Like I just want everybody to see me. Like I'm amazing. And so I'm thinking it's Braxton Hicks. We have a dog and our son that have to be taken care of. And Lucas was with us at the party'cause they have kids and we're sitting there watching the Super Bowl and it was the year that Madonna played and I'm like, or did the halftime show. And I was like, we have to stay for halftime. I cannot leave. That's when I realized I was like, probably in labor. Really in denial. Deep denial in here. And and I just had my husband starting to time my contractions. I would sit on the floor where the pregnant woman belongs, in my mind is on the floor on a hard surface, sitting up against the edge of the couch. And then my husband was sitting on the couch and I would squeeze his hand when a contraction began, and then I would squeeze it when it ended. And he's they're all getting pretty close. But I was like, managing it just fine. I was like, okay, we got time. We're good. And I was like, but we have to stay for the halftime. Nobody knows, that I'm like, in labor. And so Madonna performed, she does her thing and I'm like, sweet, we gotta go. And so because everyone's moving around after the halftime show and i'm like, we're going home and then we're going to U of M. I'm like, I'm gonna have this baby. And they're like, what? And everybody's are you serious? I'm like, yeah this baby's, I think it is coming tonight or early tomorrow morning. And so we left, we drove or we came back to our house again in Novi, and called my dad to pick up my dog and my son, best grandpa on the planet, or papa. He's lovingly called Papa, like single, no one else is helping him. This guy, he's amazing. And he comes at 10 o'clock at night, picks up Lucas and our dog, and goes back and John, I was like, you go sleep. I'm like, let me just see how I progress here. And by then I was like, moaning. Which is my cue of we need to go and, because I really wanted to make sure, what I learned with the first is don't go to the hospital too early. There is a ways to go and then our bodies shut down, or, they stall for protection. And so I was like we need to go and we have a 30 minute drive to U of M and feeling every single bump of our Detroit roads.

Exie:

That's what our last guest said!

Elise Bowerman:

Yes, exactly. That might be a theme for a lot of the stories in this podcast actually especially when you're going during transition or very active labor, right before transition, so I was definitely in very active labor, probably transition, going on those bumpy roads and thinking I'm gonna be this mom that has her kid on the side of the road. I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do here. We got to U of M, thankfully, I don't know what happened'cause it's a blur, right? I was in the zone the security guy came out, or I started walking in like hobbling, probably holding, like with my hand, on my vulva. Just get inside the building. That's all I'm telling myself. Just get inside the building. And he comes, with a wheelchair. And I was like, thank you. And the poor guy, he's probably so young and I'm like, and he's you're in labor. I was like, yep. And I can't talk at all. So I know I'm deep in birth and I'm like, yep. And he's like trying to talk to me.'cause he's nervous and I'm like, you don't have to talk to me. I'm like, look, I'm just gonna make some sounds. And I'm like, I just, I'm like, I just gotta get to the floor. And you have to go to triage and they're checking me in and I'm like, here. And I'm like, I just, I can't talk or anything. My husband's parking and I'm like, just do whatever you need to do. And by the time they wheeled me into the room, John gets there and they already started the tub, which was so nice. And they got things going, the room ready. And she's okay, do you wanna, why don't you stand up and you can make your way over to the tub? And I just I'm literally doing it physically, like where I was like, oh my goodness, I don't think I can stand up. And she's do you feel rectal pressure? And I was like, yeah. And she is okay. She's let's see if we can just get you out of the chair, and into the bed and let's just see what happens. And I was like, all so she's you don't have to worry about the tub. I'm like, okay. I am like, I don't think I can get there.'Cause my mind is I'm supposed to go over there. And she's Nope nope. And redirecting me. And by the time I got on the bed, all I remember is I was ready to push and I was in the familiar position of sitting up really tall, my nurse on one side, John on the other side, oh and our poor Nicole, we really dropped the ball on her, Like I, I forget, like she was in the midst of it all, so I don't know when John called her because we just didn't think it was gonna be as fast. The stories we tell ourselves. And John calls Nicole at whatever time. Lily was born at three in the morning. It's the middle of the night probably at one. We didn't give her lots of time. And typically for us birth doulas, we are like at least two hours notice. At least if not three. Let me know you're in labor. Didn't let her know I was in labor.'cause I was really into deep denial, all the things. And so we're like, we're going to the hospital. Oh, I do remember John being like, we're going the hospital. She's right now? He's yeah. And he's Elise is in labor. And so she gets there for like maybe 20 minutes before Lily's born. And so it's the nurse John, and then our midwife is standing like. What feels like a million miles away, like giving me so much space, like lovingly spaciousness, like literally holding me, holding the room. And, I don't know, she could have been like just at my feet, but it felt like she's witnessing me. She's seen me. And I also named in my birth intentions, my plan of I need to hear encouraging words. I learned that with my first, I need to know, I need to be cheered, I need to be rooted for that. I'm doing everything right. And I, in my mind, I'm mooing like a cow. Everybody can hear me down this down the hallway. This moo of a woman, this cow woman. And When it's all said and done, like before she comes out I just lifted my eyes open and just took in the room, and I just saw everyone looking at me in the most like, curious and compassionate way that I was like like I felt like on stage, but not not a freak show.

Exie:

Yeah.

Elise Bowerman:

And they just gave me space and at one point they brought a mirror for me to look at the Lily crowning. And then I felt her. And then literally as soon as I felt her, everything, that's how I describe the feeling that it was. It's and she just came out

Exie:

Uhhuh,

Elise Bowerman:

and onto my chest right away, which was a new experience because Lucas was taken across the room

Exie:

right?

Elise Bowerman:

I was like, really an utter disbelief of this is it. Like I did it. I'm like, I'm done almost. And I'm like, oh my gosh. Like I was literally in disbelief of how quickly it happened, but also how not scared I was and and everything. And it was just really peaceful. It was just really wonderful. I can't describe it other than that. And also very deeply euphoric because it wasn't an emergency situation. I didn't hemorrhage. Like we let the cord pulse and there was no rushing and it was like, oh, this is what it's about. And then, everybody talked me through what was going on and even the massaging of my abdomen just making sure like I was able to deliver, to birth the placenta whole, which was really cool. And I wish I had a picture of that. And it just felt like this is what people are, this is what women are talking about, like the power of birth. And really, for me, it was a reclamation of myself, of that opportunity which I'm so glad I gave to myself to, to know that nothing is wrong with me. It was the support I was receiving, the environment that I was in, all the things. And then two, two things that I wanna like end kinda where I'm thinking of ending here is, one is after my birth one of the nurses, I don't know how much time had passed, but a nurse came over to me and she was just like, thank you so much for letting me be here with you and support your birth. And I was like, oh. I'm like, thank you. Thank you for supporting me. I'm like, this is what I needed. And she's no. She's really? She's I've never seen a uninterrupted physiological birth. And I was like, what? I know. It's it's like intellectually we know that they, the nurses, the physicians don't, get to see a lot of really fulfilled physiological births from start to finish. But I was just like, oh my gosh, like this is really impactful. Like I was just downloading all this is really impactful for her and it's like really impactful for me. And I'm like, now she can carry this to other births and maybe her own one day, I don't know, I couldn't even tell you what she looked like or how old she was or anything, but she had never witnessed anything like that. She was like, I didn't know that could exist. And she was like, thank you so much for letting me be in the room with you. And I was like so deeply honored and floored all at the same time. And and that really was the final catalyst for me to know that a big part of my purpose here is to work with women becoming mothers and to help normalize the physiological process that our bodies innately know what to do with the proper encouragement and coaching. Just like anybody with, to run a marathon, to do anything big and bold, that's an initiation process, right? Everybody has coaches for everything. And why don't we have the normalcy in the birth space of a very natural process, but often comes unnatural, just like breastfeeding. We often have to be coached, understand what is normal, what is healthy, what is, what can be done, what is a proactive way, what is a responsive way, all these things. And so just her saying that was like, okay, I don't need to do something else with my life. Like this is really like this. That was my calling because like at that time I was like, am I just gonna be a prenatal yoga teacher? Is that enough for me? That type of thing. Because in the yoga community, it's not really celebrated or cared for, which is why most yoga studios don't have a prenatal or a postnatal yoga class, right? And it's true. And so it is community led and oriented, but the moms are often missed. And so that is part of my mission is in my perfect world, every yoga studio would have at least one prenatal yoga class and one postpartum yoga class to at least start there and build from there. Anyway, so that was my personal motivation of my internal fulfillment of more than a mom. And then my husband, he was like, just knowing that Nicole was on her way to be with us gave him so much peace of mind.

Exie:

Yeah.

Elise Bowerman:

Because people again, get caught up in the money of what you invest in your support, help and whatever. But he's even if she hadn't been able to show up, just knowing that she was on her way, she was gonna be there for you, there for me, there for Lily. It was everything, the peace of mind that her energy of what we invested in was looking out for us and not affiliated with any hospital system or administration.

Exie:

Yeah.

Elise Bowerman:

He was like, I'd pay that over and over again just to know we have somebody we can call or, reach out to or show up, And see what's happening and taking in the bigger picture. Yeah.

Exie:

That's a really fascinating admission that he made because I think that's a very, cost is a very big motivator for people. Especially when they have all of these other new expenses that come along with having a baby. And if their insurance only partially pays for the birth, then they've gotta shell out money for that. Yeah, the emotional aspect of it, and I think that's also I always say that support is a pie consisting of several different aspects of it. And some families the bigger piece of that pie is going to be the physical. Some families, the bigger piece of the pie is gonna be educational, informational translating the medical speak into what they can understand so they can make informed decisions. But the emotional part is the piece that oftentimes people don't recognize as a huge aspect of birth doula support. I always tell my clients, anybody can learn physical comfort techniques.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah.

Exie:

they're not that hard to learn. They're sometimes challenging to apply over many hours,

Elise Bowerman:

Mm-hmm.

Exie:

which is why having a doula physically there with you to tag off back and forth so that the partner's body is sustained. But the emotional aspect of it, just being able, I think back to your experience with your son, and I think if there had just been somebody there to explain to

Elise Bowerman:

Mm-hmm.

Exie:

him maybe what was happening,

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah.

Exie:

maybe he wouldn't have carried so much on his shoulders walking away from that experience.

Elise Bowerman:

Yes. I completely agree. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, and especially being a birth doula now, like being in the rooms and like you said, the different pieces of our own toolkits that show up for the families in the way that they need to utilize our skills and what we know is birth doulas really provide the human experience because let the physicians, let the midwives, the nurses, the pediatricians, everybody who's coming into the room do their work because they know how to read the charts. They know how to do all the things, they can do stitches, they can do whatever they need to another, poke whatever needs to be done. And then having a person who's orienting to the human experience of what all these pieces are doing, helping the mom and dad understand what's going on and to help direct. Because when they're doing their pieces, all these trained professionals are trained for emergency situations and worst case scenarios, right? That's what they lean in their mind, unfortunately. But that also keeps people safe to a degree. And again, it could be rescued to help orient if the baby's in distress, dad, I'm gonna stay with mom. You go walk over to baby and start talking to baby and be with baby. If you wanna say baby's name out loud in the room right now, please do. Your baby can hear you. I'll just bring in more humanness. I've personally done that in one of the rooms and as soon as I was acknowledging the baby's consciousness everyone, the midwife, the pediatrician, like everybody just there was like this millisecond of a pause and like stare at me. I was like, oh shit. And then, because sometimes my mouth can be a little bit big, but then sometimes I hold myself too far back where, I just play on this dichotomy And I was like, dad, I'm like, talk to baby. Go, go over there and talk to baby. And then the pediatrician's yeah, come over here. It's'cause they're so focused on their work and we want them to be focused on their work, but there's such value of having this other person that's seeing all the moving parts and the value of them Helping them understand and or giving them, ideas to ask questions, if there's misunderstanding happening or just unin information. Yeah. Yeah. And I just wanna go back to the financial piece because it's such a huge piece. I'm sure I know that you see and I see for reasons to not do things and stuff like that is, at the time, again, we were growing our family, my husband's business, our insurance was garbage. And we paid$10,000 out of our pocket, or the bill was$10,000 to birth at U of M. I didn't have a port in me, my child, my, my children are completely un poked. And my child, my children, Lily was with me the whole time. And we were out in maybe 28 hours, like a little over 24 hours. So we were there for such a short period of time, absolutely no intervention, no medicalization of anything. And that was$10,000. And my husband's we just live with this bill. We live with paying a hundred bucks a month. He calls, and is I can't pay$10,000. And it's not sitting in the corner of our house here and, I can pay this and whatever, and it was like a hundred bucks a month. And it's like relearning money, beliefs or beliefs about money and how we can actually be more in control of it and have more authority of our own authority and power. And I realized it looks different for everyone, but one of our ways was to be like, okay, we live with this payment. This monthly payment isn't putting us out and we're just gonna deal with it until, either it's paid off or something else happens and then it's moving on and not harboring the burden of oh, we were only there for 24 hours and nobody even did anything. That story like that is not part of our story, like at all. But I feel like it's important for me to say because it's what we were comfortable and confident in dealing with for the experience, for the kind of support that I really wanted at this birth.

Exie:

Yeah. Yeah.

Elise Bowerman:

Does that make sense?

Exie:

It absolutely does. And I think, there was a news report recently, like earlier this week, where they talked about the average cost of weddings. And So the average cost of weddings for Gen Z or Gen X was like I think it was somewhere around like 24,000. I never even came close to that. And I'm a proud Gen Xer.

Elise Bowerman:

Me neither.

Exie:

with millennials, it jumped another$10,000.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah.

Exie:

And then with Gen Z, it's come back down again and Gen Z brides based on this poll or whatever they did the most money is spent on the venue and

Elise Bowerman:

The experience.

Exie:

yeah, the least amount of money is spent on the dress, interestingly enough. And I think that's because brides today are finding other places to purchase them. They're recognizing it's a dress for one day, so instead

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah.

Exie:

of buying a$10,000 dress, they're finding'em for hundreds of dollars in used stores or whatever.

Elise Bowerman:

Mm-hmm.

Exie:

But it was, it's interesting that you talk about the amount of time that you spent in the hospital. When you compare that to how much it costs to rent a venue for just a few hours, or when you compare the cost of having birth doula support or postpartum doula support, childbirth education. When you compare that to the amount that people are not even second thinking about when it comes to the venue of their wedding reception, it really kind of puts into a stark contrast where our societal and cultural views are of what we value.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah.

Exie:

We do not value birth experiences the way we value weddings. And like you said earlier, how many percentage of people divorce? So you're spending all this money on this wedding and you're not even married for your lifetime, but you are a parent for your lifetime. And like we talked about earlier, that experience imprints on you. I'm not going to propose to know how you feel, but I would imagine that going back into Novi Hospital, as opposed to going back to U of M hospital as a, just as a human being or as a birth professional, there's a different visceral feeling inside of you, I would guess.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah, you are absolutely right. Yeah, because I have, I've had to go back to Novi. Yeah. It's completely different. And it's sad because they do a lot of great work at Providence Novi, but from my experience in the lens that, yeah, it's deeply held within, coming back to, we are feelers first.

Exie:

Yeah. And the other interesting point, that you made was about the nurse at U of M and how she had not ever seen physiologic birth before yours. And that is probably the most profound statement out of a healthcare professional because they are not taught it normally looks like, and if you see X, Y, or Z, this is how you would react. Right? They're not taught, they're not given that baseline of normalcy on which to view patients and start treating patients. Yeah. It's definitely improving. I can say that.'Cause you had Lily in 2012,

Elise Bowerman:

Yep. Yes.

Exie:

So, in those 13 years we've seen facilities and healthcare professionals make a very positive adjustment in their approaches and in even their offerings in the hospitals to help support that more, normal type of birth with the mom at the center of it, and then the baby when the baby is born. But I think you still get those providers who, you know, they, they are just on that clinical mental track and they're looking, they're like waiting, anticipating something to go wrong.

Elise Bowerman:

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that's because they probably had, whether in their training or who mentored them, you know, it's because it's all the system, right? The system is a long, exhaustive system, and it is just that ripple down. And of course, and I think you named it earlier, is, OBGYNs are trained surgeons first, And then they choose who they want to work on and what group of people they want to service. And so no matter what their outlook is, that baby will come out either way. You know, if the mom wants to go and have a vaginal birth, that's fine. I can get her, I can get the baby out C-section. And so for them, their mentality, which I completely understand and I think you do too, like we have this really deep respect and understanding for how they have been conditioned, to be a healer'cause that is essentially their role as a healer. But they are really exposed to worst case scenario, more than not, which is why nurses, and physicians are kind of like the toughest patients. You know, or clients that we can have because they're like worried about this worst case scenario. And I'm like, you're nowhere near them. You're good. But they don't know, you know? And like, even as moms, like I have friends that are nurses that are moms and they don't know what to do with a healthy baby, right?'cause they might work with unhealthy like babies that struggle to survive. And so it's like actually healthy is more common than not. And we gotta flip the script.

Exie:

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. We have to remember that a lot of these providers are working in systems that are disrespectful to them as human beings.

Elise Bowerman:

Completely.

Exie:

They are working very, very long shifts. They do not have any support. If they have a traumatic experience as a provider, they oftentimes have to go from one room into the next, put on a happy face, and try to act like everything is fine to focus on the mom in that room, and then they're expected to go home. with their families or their friends or whatever the case may be, and come back for the next long shift, the next day. And there is no, or very, very little recognition of the impact that secondary trauma or vicarious trauma is having on these professionals. So as a birth supporter whether that's in my childbirth education or my birth prep classes, I do try to impress on my clients. Some of this is just part of birthing in a hospital today. I had a client who, I looked at her after everything that she said that she wanted, what her philosophy of her ideal birth was. And I said to her, have you considered looking into home birth? Because everything that you want would actually fit that environment much more than a hospital. And she said well, my insurance won't cover a home birth, so I'm stuck with the hospital. I said, okay, then, you have to let go of some of this tightly held: I don't want this. I don't want this, I don't want this. Because you automatically have to understand that when you're entering that system, they have certain protocols. And yes, you can decline them. You absolutely can decline them, but know that you might have to fight for that. And how willing are you to do that when you are in labor? I'll back you up either way, but just know what you're going into and, these providers, they want their clients, their patients to have good experiences. I mean, generally speaking, the healthcare providers are not wishing ill on their patients that's not how they are when they walk into a room. But we have to recognize that they are carrying their own traumas personally, their traumas professionally, for sure. Any provider that was providing birth care and pregnancy care during the pandemic has trauma.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah.

Exie:

They absolutely have trauma, and much of it is unresolved and unrecognized. Because why? Because the system is a business.

Elise Bowerman:

Mm-hmm.

Exie:

It's a business ultimately, and they are employees or contractors of that business and are treated that way. So I think it's very important for us to recognize that, and gift that you gave that nurse was truly and I'm sure, impactful on how she walks through of her experiences professionally and personally. And I'm sure she's told her friends.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for naming all that. It's so important to acknowledge and recognize, like you said and especially when like EMTs, like emergency responders, firefighters, police officers, you know, they often receive the mental health support, after traumatic events and things like that. And where the medicalization community, the physicians, the nurses, it's not. It's not a well-oiled machine of receiving that kind of support and acknowledgement of what they've gone through. You're absolutely right. They're going from one room to the next and like any of us, and you've been a child educator for so long it's very easy for us who are in the space doing the thing. Remembering that this is somebody's first time and they don't know what they don't know and, treating them like they're brand new every, you know, every time, so to speak. And there is a lot of unsaid things that physicians especially have to deal with to be great in their fields and to be leaders'cause we need them.

Exie:

Yeah, absolutely. Your situation when you gave birth to Lucas could have been a very different outcome had you not had such skilled professionals in the room to do what they needed to do for both of you and so recognizing that is important but it's a balance hopefully, anybody who listens to this episode with both of your experiences, which are so different, But both in a hospital, Can recognize that the, the safety net of having skilled professionals, especially if you have underlying issues, maybe gestational diabetes, none of which you had, but any of those things,

Elise Bowerman:

Right.

Exie:

Which we know those rates are much higher now than they were back when you had your kids. That having that safety net, we need to be respectful and happy that we have that, but also recognizing that hospitals can be really good places to experience almost what you would have in a home birth situation with that safety net of just in case.

Elise Bowerman:

Completely. I believe it's absolutely possible. I had that experience with Lily and it is completely possible, and like you said, you have to know what you're up against and how the system in place operates so that you know what you're willing to advocate for and also what you're recognizing, I don't know how much time they're gonna give me if my water breaks or like whatever. But gathering as much information as you can about how that a hospital operates. And also, I'm just gonna put this in there too. I've had moms that happen to be by the hospital that they would like to birth at and it might not have been in their insurance. And'cause insurance, it all figures itself out, right? When we don't give the power, we are all deeply conditioned to have insurance and that's a whole thing. And women birth on vacation,

Exie:

Mm-hmm.

Elise Bowerman:

they birth, you know, I just happened to be by this hospital and'cause this is where I want to birth, if you're willing to do that, do that. We don't have to be confined to what somebody else, another system in place is telling us what our limitations are. In the box that we have to be in. Yeah, so I'm just gonna say that there, I've had local moms that have just been by the hospital that they wanted to be by for the birth and the insurance, it all shakes out, it all figures itself out. If you don't give it a lot of power and you're an authority of making those decisions,

Exie:

Yeah. Because it's illegal for an emergency department to turn away somebody who shows up at the hospital.

Elise Bowerman:

they can't turn you away.

Exie:

Yeah.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah.

Exie:

same thing with a laboring person. You can't turn them away if they're actually in labor. So yeah, that's an excellent point.

Elise Bowerman:

Women birth everywhere. Half, it's

Exie:

is true.

Elise Bowerman:

Like you can be on vacation in Florida, like wherever in Hawaii. Oh. Just happened to be here. Can't believe it. I was 39 weeks pregnant.

Exie:

Yeah, but again, that shows a highly attuned person to themselves, what their intuition is, what they, what their needs are,

Elise Bowerman:

Yes

Exie:

allowing that to supersede the messages that come in from the outside.

Elise Bowerman:

Exactly. Yeah.

Exie:

this has been such a great morning connecting with you. I had never heard your birth stories all the years that we've known each other. I have never heard your birth stories, and so I feel very privileged that you decided to share them with me and also in this format. So thank you, Elise.

Elise Bowerman:

Oh, thank you so much, Exie. Thank you for receiving them and letting me share and speak, and also I'm gonna plant the seed of, I look forward to hearing your birth stories.

Exie:

Oh, I think if you go back in the podcast early,

Elise Bowerman:

Did I miss it?

Exie:

Ciana and I did share both of our stories. I don't know how in depth I got with my eldest. I'd have to go back and check, it was fairly early on in our podcast And then we both had inductions, so I know I shared Ethan's experience in that one as well. But again, I haven't listened to in a really long time. And that's the, that's an interesting thing too, because memory is kind of fluid, right. what we highlight when we tell a story at one point in our life may be very different from what we highlight in telling the same story later in our life. Yeah, I'll have to go back and listen to those too and see how I described my stories.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah. Thank you for naming that. I'm gonna go back and listen. I probably listened a long time ago, but I want to listen again. Yeah.

Exie:

yeah. Yeah. Ciana and oh my goodness, we did so much giggling. When we were recording, so, be prepared for that. Her induction story was really fascinating. So Elise, you have hosted a couple of retreats recently in the recent years.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah. I've been working with Mickey Gardner, who is a co-parenting coach and she really helps moms and dads navigate, parenting, whether they're still coupled or post-divorce and, we work with moms married, unmarried, and we do a three month container of support and really naming what is intentional living for you? Because all of our households operate differently and what's priority right now might not be priority three years from now, but we gotta name it so that there's less resentment, less feeling like not yourself. We've had moms, that have teenagers, moms that are very recently postpartum and everyone in between. It's been really a great gift and fulfillment and we just wrapped up our last three month thing this week. So thanks for naming that. You can follow me on Instagram at Birth Humanity, and my website is birth humanity.com and both of those are 99% update updated at any time, and especially my Instagram will have more information I feel than my website. But my website has a great blog too that I just share whatever's on my mind and heart that I want others to know or messages to my children that I just want in their wheelhouse.

Exie:

Yeah. That's fantastic. Thank you again for opening up your morning for me. It was great to chat with you. I hope we get to see each other again in real life very soon.

Elise Bowerman:

Yeah, I'm sure we will. Yeah. Thank you. It was a pleasure. Thank you for listening and holding space for me.

Exie:

Absolutely. Thank you for spending time with me today on Metro Detroit Birth Stories. If you loved this episode, let me know. Leave a review, share it with a friend, and come connect with me on Instagram@metrodetroitbirthsupport and if you have a birth story to share, I would love to hear it. Please take a moment to reach out to me, whether it was six months ago or 60 years ago. Your story could be the inspiration for someone who hears it to gain the confidence they need as they embark on their own birth journey. My email is in the show notes. This podcast is produced and funded by me, and I really appreciate you listening. Until next time, take care. Be gentle with yourself. Be kind to others, and remember, every birth story deserves to be told. The music you hear on Metro Detroit Birth Stories has been provided by Purple Planet Music, written and performed by Chris Martyn and Geoff Harvey.

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Exie Buehler

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